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Welcome to Software Development on Codidact!

Will you help us build our independent community of developers helping developers? We're small and trying to grow. We welcome questions about all aspects of software development, from design to code to QA and more. Got questions? Got answers? Got code you'd like someone to review? Please join us.

Comments on How will you balance demanding high quality questions with maximising the number of users?

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How will you balance demanding high quality questions with maximising the number of users?

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There is a well know trade-off between a site aiming for questions/answers that are of a high quality and useful for people who arrive from Google and a site being nice to new users who often only care about someone doing their homework for them, so they can complete a programme course, with no intention of ever writing software again or learning more than what is needed to pass.

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Is it a bad idea to create a newcomer-only Q&A category? Not now, but after a few years.

... or not a category but you know the tabs like "Meta" and "Code Reviews?" However those are called. Call this one "Hello, World" or "Hello, Newbie" or "Howdy, Stranger." I'm kind of attached to the "Hello" idea. Anyway. The standards for what passes as a decent question on "Hello" are much lower than the standards enforced on "Q&A" : it's ok to ask questions that have been answered elsewhere, it's ok if you have a problem with command-line tools instead of compiled code, it's ok if you don't list all the websites you tried before coming here. Most of the questions will come from desperate freshmen in Comp Sci 101, and eager sophomores who asked their CS 101 questions on Codidact last year will be happy to give answers. I mean they've only been on Codidact for a year now; how are they supposed to know which questions have been asked before? If everything goes right, experienced moderators will never need to look at the questions on "Hello."

There might be problems. What if North Korea liberalizes and all the incredibly experienced North Korean software engineers get access to the global internet and start asking real, never-before-seen questions on Codidact's "Hello" page? They don't have the reputation yet to post to "Q&A." Who will sort the signal from the noise? This might work with eager CS seniors who have been helping out on "Hello" for a few years now and know how to spot a real question when they see one. They flag the question if in doubt, and an experienced moderator can determine whether or not the question should be promoted to "Q&A."

But is this the way that we want to raise our next generation of question-askers and moderators? Sure the eager CS sophomore knows how to answer questions, but does she know how to gently coax the desperate CS freshman into making his second question a bit better than his first? How did she learn how to coach her students anyway, since she was indoctrinated by other second-rate moderators on the "Hello" page? I don't have a good prediction on this one. Maybe just try it and watch for problems.

When I first learned how to code I referenced Stack Overflow every day, asked a few questions, occasionally browsed through the list of new questions to see if there were any that I could help with. Never happened: all the new questions were way over my head. It's probably still that way, since I mostly work with languages designed in the 1980's... same thing happened on comp.lang.c. I think that a lot of newcomers will want to help, and something like this would give them their own space to vent those altruistic impulses.

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General comments (14 comments)
General comments
Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

The tabs = what's called categories on Codidact.

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

As for having a separate newcomer site/category, it has been proposed many times before. I think it is easier to migrate the advanced topic to a separate site/category though. So for this specific site, it would mean that main Q&A should be the newbie friendly one, and we could add an "Expert" category with stricter quality standards.

Alexei‭ wrote over 3 years ago

This is an interesting idea, but there are some drawbacks as shown on SO: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252781/would-it-be-a-terrible-idea-to-split-so-up-into-a-tiered-platform .

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

@Lundin I agree that it would be less confusing for new users if the off-limits place had a special label like "Expert," and their sandbox kept the standard "Q&A" label. As long as up-and-coming moderators have a clearly delineated set of questions over which they have license to practice their still-imperfect teaching skills and flagging skills... that fits the bill.

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Alexei the fact that SO has never done this is the main reason I like to consider it ^_^' since whatever they're doing now is frustrating for both new users and moderators.

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

It is good to know that you are aware of the possibility though. I read the answer by user4842163 on the question you linked, and if that's old news then I do not think that I have any new arguments to contribute to this conversation. If you want to spitball ideas together for how we might avoid potential problems with this approach then I am open to conversation! But I will not push the issue further.

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

We actually discussed this very early on here (on the old forums, now closed). This was long before categories were invented though.

anatolyg‭ wrote over 3 years ago

I think using categories for such a "community split" is an excellent idea! If your community grows too much, you split it and continue with manageable size. If your community stops growing, you continue without adding categories. Everyone is happy. Also, the point on experienced programmers being newbies in a different programming area explains why making a "Helloworld" category should be a success (once the programming community is big enough).

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Lundin Thanks for the link. I agree with @gilles that "there’s no clear distinction between professionals and non-professionals," which makes an ad-hoc site split difficult. But, there is a clear distinction between new users who do not know what is expected of them in a given community and users who at least really try to ask good questions and can respect feedback. I think it would benefit these users to work on the border, where they can mentor the new blood and be mentored by the old guard.

Alexei‭ wrote over 3 years ago

Not sure if this was mentioned, but we can have a "sandbox" or similar category just like they have on World Building SE: https://worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/639/how-does-the-sandbox-work-how-do-i-use-it . However, the flow is quite tedious (ask in the Sandbox, get feedback. post on main category, remove from sandbox etc.).

Lundin‭ wrote over 3 years ago

@Alexei It would be a perfectly fine use of meta to ask for feedback about a question draft before posting it live though.

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago

I like the sandbox idea, on meta or anywhere else. It would be important for moderators to be able to easily move questions from Q&A into the sandbox / to meta. And many questions in a SoftDev sandbox might never re-enter Q&A, if they are duplicates that a beginner couldn't spot because he didn't look or he didn't know the right search vocabulary. And I am not sure about World Building's "please do not answer questions here" rule, for questions with one-sentence answers that refer to a manual.

Monica Cellio‭ wrote over 3 years ago

Code Golf here on Codidact has a sandbox. They have it set up so that you post articles (not questions) in the sandbox, get feedback in comments, edit, get more comments, etc, and when you're done you can cut/paste your challenge in the main "challenges" category and mark it resolved in the sandbox. They don't move the posts because then you'd have to deal with all the comments, and keeping the history is helpful for them (so no copy + purge).

Jordan‭ wrote over 3 years ago · edited over 3 years ago

Oh neat :) so now we have two working models on which to base a question improvement system. Might be useful if there's a big warning that says "please consider posting in the sandbox first" in slanted boldface capital letters in the green box at the top of the "Ask Question" page, and a radio box or something that says "yes I would like to post in the sandbox" to re-route the post so that askers don't have to switch webpages.